From Law to Volcker: Consequences of Fiat Money

0:00I was delighted when Lew Rockwell asked me to speak on John Law. I can't imagine why he did, although I do know why he did, because I often refer to John Law as just an informal conversation. It is said that if you want to change a society, there are two best approaches. One is the pulpit and the other is the theater. I would not assume to take over the pulpit, but I would like to suggest that some of us in this crowd ought to do a Broadway show on John Law.

0:50Now the scene might open in 1976 with a distinguished former Secretary of the Treasury saying to an assembled group in New York City, you don't need gold to back the dollar, the industrial might of the nation backs the dollar. Now taking an admonition from Murray Rothbard, I'll tell you that that Secretary of the Treasury had been a successful bond man before he became Secretary of the Treasury and since then he's The Federal Open Market Committee, according to the Federal Reserve Bulletin in 1971, its Its basic concern is with the real economy, production, employment, prices, balance of payments, etc.

1:56The same message could have been found in an introduction to a book written in 1705 entitled Money and Trade Considered with a Proposal for Supplying the Nation with Money by Young John Law. Banking in the Rue King-Campoy in 1719 and 1720 may not have had its 100 million-share days, but it had an awful lot of excitement, so much so that Adam Smith wrote that it was the most extravagant project both of banking and stop-jobbing that perhaps the world ever saw. Elgin Grossclose has written that in Law's bank, in his Mississippi company and his system, we see Adam braided the modern system of complex interrelationships among industry, commerce, capital and the money mechanism, the system in which money derives its validity from the The State of Trade is intricately and precariously balanced upon the state of money.

3:10To refer to John Law's episode in history as simply the Mississippi bubble I think is to trivialize a very important episode and one that has major lessons for us to learn. I'll quote at length today, or from time to time today, with Charles Rees' book, The History And I like what Charles Reist has to say about my opening remarks about John Law's lessons for our time. Now the 18th century wasn't all that taken with John Law, despite his success and despite his becoming probably the most prominent figure in Europe. The 19th and 20th centuries have been at times less critical of law. Certain passages written in restrained and reasonable manner are quoted as expressing the real essence of law's thoughts.

4:10Actually they are tactical concessions to the necessities of the moment. It has also It has also been said that he was an unrecognized forerunner because certain bankers today have taken up some of his most debatable formulas. It would be more correct to regard these belated disciples as backsliders. The eighteenth century was not mistaken in its attitude. It saw through the fundamental confusion between credit and money that law deliberately and I would go further, says Charles Rist. Credit had no interest for him except as a means of making the public familiar with paper money. His four years in France bring together all All of the drama and all of the causes and consequences of this economic theory in bold relief. You see the beneficiaries and the victims, and as I say, the causes and the consequences all telescoped in four years, which is why the episode to me is so fascinating.

5:29When the future historians write the history of Paul Volcker's time, it will take forever We are dealing with a monetary crisis which, if it is not properly solved, will mean the and the shattering of the world. So we see it as sort of the bionic man moving out slowly, the waves going out very slowly, but in Law's time you see it all happening in a four years' episode. And certainly John Law was a more exciting figure than an Arthur Burns or a Paul Volcker.

6:20One has yet to see women falling out of their cars in front of the Federal Reserve just to get Paul Volcker's attention, or a kiss from Paul Volcker, or making all sorts of intimate passes at him, which the women of Paris did do to John Law. But then John Law was quite a dashing figure. He was a son of a goldsmith, and he was familiar with and a gambler, a very successful gambler. He was familiar with money and numbers and studied assiduously what was known then as Political Arithmetic. Contrary to Paul Volcker's background, John Law was a refugee from the English courts, having slain an opponent in a duel over an affair of the heart. His escape from England took him across the Channel to Amsterdam and into the midst of the Amsterdam and Banking Center.

7:23It also brought him into friendship with a very nice Dutch banker. And it was the banker's wife, according to one biographer, who provided the dashing John Law with a bit more than normal generous hospitality. And it was on the occasion that she provided John Law to be present in the banker's home one morning when a courier, the banker was out of town, A military courier arrived with news that a French town had fallen to the English. While most bankers then did have their couriers to bring them news, banker Mercous was one who had a military courier who came in. And from that moment on, that morning on, John Law was keenly aware of the importance, the profitable business of arbitrage and foreign and Exchange.

8:22It was with that zeal, wit and charm that John Law went into France in the spring of 1714. He had been there before and was well known in the gambling halls. But he couldn't go back to England. He had seen that Amsterdam was doing all right. His field was going to I will, he said, coin the very soil of France. Now he had recommended to Scotland that they base their money on land, but he really did not recommend that to the regent. That idea was saved about another 70 years later when they had the French revolutions and based the assignats on the land, the expropriated church land. And that was also a consequence, I'm sure of the fact that John Law's writings from his early years on land-based money was translated into French.

9:18So his memory lived on even though he did not try for the money-land combination in his original episode. He also said, I will make gold out of paper. Well, he didn't really quite do that, but his mistake probably was that he didn't call

10:06on every block in every city. So the bank did take hold. And like a politician, John Locke came into France promising jobs. I should be able to say that the way Geraldine Ferraro There are 18 million people in France, he said, to make so many people react productively, requires immense sums for daily expenditures and perpetual circulation of a very large amount of money.

10:59Good laws may bring the money to the full circulation it is capable of and force it to those employments that are most profitable to the country. But no laws can make it go further, nor can more people be set to work without more money to circulate so as to pay the wages of a greater number. Howard Keynes could not have said it better. Money is a creature of politics, it must circulate, and it is the provider of employment. Now having seen Holland's world trade bringing in great wealth to that little country, law was going to do the same for debt ridden France. To him an abundance of money was not a symptom, but a source of wealth. He did not bother with the idea that metallic money enters a country only as a result of goods and services that have been provided for others.

11:58The Dutch loved to see John Law come a cropper, which he eventually did, and they put out a lot of lithographs. My attention was drawn to John Law a few years ago when the Smithsonian Institution put out a double centerfold, actually, of one of those lithographs. And it was Pallas Athene driving through the streets of Paris, with harlequin throwing out chits. Well, the greedy mobs of Paris thought that it was more money or more stock. What they turned out to be were chits for jobs. Now, for John Law, though, credit or real bills, such banknotes, were too limited, and The process of increasing wealth by credit alone was too slow. What was needed, held law, was a new form of money, money that had no intrinsic value whatsoever, paper. He talked of coining notes. Money, he said, is not the value for which goods are exchanged, but the The value by which goods are exchanged. In other words, money was nothing but a voucher for purchase. And here I'd like to quote you Charles Wriste again. He says, Here we reach

13:18the cardinal point of law's theory. Money is only a voucher for buying goods. It is a formula which is provided, says Wriste, the starting point for all currency cranks. and apparently self-evident axiom on which have been based all systems which deny the citizen the right to a means of storing value. Money is made to purchase with. Money is not the durable and indestructible good of stable value and unlimited acceptability with the help of which man has been able to put by the product of his labor, the instrument for saving by means of which a bridge is built between the present and the future and without In which all provision for the future would become impossible.

14:05But I suggest you ask someone today, what is a dollar? And they will tell you, a dollar? What's it worth? It's worth what you can get for it. In other words, the dollar is nothing but a voucher for purchase, just as John Law wanted it to be. All of these ideas convinced the duke d'Orleans, the regent of France, who agreed to be law's patron and gained approval from the Finance Council for Law's private bank, the Banque Generale, started in June 1716. It is also probably worth pointing out, and remember this when we write our stage play, that the regent also consulted fortune tellers and The Regent and Law put their gold libra in the bank and others soon followed. Law was establishing a monopoly bank, not just to serve the King and his government, but all the people, if need be, all would be forced to join the enterprise through the use of of Paper Money, and so the drama began.

15:17Within a few months, law had the good fortune to have the region instruct the provisional governors to pay their tax revenues to Paris in the notes of the bank general, thus forcing circulation of the paper throughout the nation and giving the bank a quasi-governmental character. The next year by government decree the taxpayers themselves could pay their taxes directly with paper. Law was launched and the signs of prosperity appeared as usual with the first infusion of created money. The notion, however, that it is enough to create paper money, the only kind that is created and not acquired, in a poor country and thereby develop industry The theory of natural resources, says Rist again, is an idea that affronts common sense.

16:13But law had written extensively on instances in which money created and spent in one section then comes into the possession of another group who spend it and bring possession to another part of the population, who use it for purchases, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. If the idea, according to RISP, is an affront to common sense, it hasn't bothered many policymakers in the United States in recent years. I with three of my colleagues called on Bill Seidman in the White House. He was the financial advisor to Gerald Ford. This was 1975, and we pointed out that the nation was on a bad course of spending and giveaways.

16:59We also mentioned gold, and I know he thought he had seen four ETs. I think he probably fired his secretary for giving us the appointment. But he looked so bewildered that we were suggesting that too much money was going abroad on easy terms and giveaways. And he said, Why, we are coming out of a depression. We need the business. How will these countries buy from In the spring of 1717, Law took over the royal charter of the miserable Mississippi colony. His paper money would no longer generate trade unless he started a trading company of his own.

17:45The stories coming out of Mississippi were full of the glories of the natural resources and the Wealth of the Area. Law looked to a vast investment of capital, a large migration of slaves, for which he got an authorization of 100 million Leroy. The capital would be raised by public subscription. He had already been successful in raising money for his bank by accepting depreciated state bonds at face value, fine form of venture capital. And he proposed to do it again. He added a new feature to the project.

18:31Once the bonds had been turned over to the new company, he would burn them and save the government the necessity of paying interest. The Western Company would assume the obligations in perpetuity, presumably paying four percent and the Anticipated Profits. To crown the blessings of getting the Mississippi contract, law named the new capital, a trading post in a miserable village, New Orleans. Despite his great power, the region had its enemies who objected to the royal treasury's support of law's private bank. France's attempt to limit an autocratic government by holding the purse strings failed largely because of France's love of monarchy and disdain of the British model of parliamentary control over the King. Under the Regency, there were to be no legislative checks, when the Congress The Regent and John Law had carte blanche.

19:44Law went on to diversify the assets of the Western Mississippi Company. He acquired the monopoly of tobacco manufacture and marketing. He agreed to pay the government four million L. a year for nine years. His generous terms strengthened confidence in the Western Company, which by the spring The beginning of 1718 was being called the system, the word anticipated law's dominion of the country's entire economy and trade. In November 1718, the decision was made to turn the bank general into the bank royal on the first day of the New Year. Law may have been willing to settle for a private bank. It was going pretty well. But after After all, the regent and his secretary of state did have an idea there might be another war to come along.

20:36And so they moved John Law to go on to his original idea, which was to have a royal bank, which would also give them free access to unlimited resources and certainly the revenue to finance a war, the same sort of opportunity that politicians have had since 1913 in the United States. The Royal Bank began with 120 million livre in paper circulating. But there was one distinct difference between the livre of the new bank and the private bank. The livre of the first bank had been convertible. Now the livre were livre-ternoir, notes of account only, which Which is essentially what the dollar is today.

21:27By making this move, law sort of wipes out that whole idea that he was naive or he had good motives in mind. All along he had wanted to move the nation to pure paper money, the kind that people would not even be tempted to hoard because it would have no intrinsic value. In a sense it's a similar process that we have seen with the dollar as it has moved from being one twentieth of an ounce of gold, then it was no longer convertible, then the reserves were removed and then finally it is a dollar turn wide, it is simply a Federal Reserve note, a note of account. The system and the bank became a catalyst for bringing the social and economic classes The creation of un-earned paper money brought about a psychology of pleasure and great expectations among thousands in Paris. Men and women were throwing discretion to the winds and were prepared to support a venture that would carry them farther along the path

22:52of hedonism than they themselves believed possible. All that was required is capital. Law now began to expand geometrically and to bring the public into its enterprise on a scale never before anticipated. And added to the maelstrom of social and economic chaos, The figure Cartouche, a sort of Mack the Knife figure, comes out of this time in Paris. Parts of bodies were found in the river, and not to mention the pickpockets and the swindlers, and all of the degenerates that come around where there is easy money. Then of course added to this scene were those who were being shipped off to the glories of Louisiana.

23:41Often they would be paraded down the streets in chains, but garlands of flowers would be hiding the chains. It was a good way to get rid of children who were difficult wives, mistresses who were obsolete, shall we say, criminals, degenerates of all sorts. The good people didn't go. Why go to Louisiana when the good times were rolling in Paris? Law added to his conglomerate of the Royal Bank, the East India Company, the China Company, and the Senegal Company. The Senegal Company dealt in the slave trade. Now, Law's methods of stock promotion would have been understood by any Merrill Lynch broker.

24:29Deals were made in futures, puts and calls. Law himself took options on shares at 200 lira over the market, A move that brought in the amazed public and moved the shares to extravagantly higher prices. As new companies were brought into the conglomerate, new shares were offered to previous owners at discount. To buy one daughter, you had to have four mothers. Obviously, you went out and bought the old shares so you could get some of the new ones. And then there was a new company brought out, and they were called granddaughters, so you He bought mothers and daughters to get granddaughters. It was a marvelous stock-jobbing operation, as Adam Smith has said. Subscriptions could be paid on installments. Shares could be bought with 5% paid in and the rest in 19 monthly installments. And especially appealing was law's technique by declaring dividends which had not been earned. And law continued on In April 1719 the Royal Decree went out, as the circulation of banknotes is more useful

25:44to His Majesty's subjects than gold or silver coin, and as they merit special protection because of the preference of metal money abroad, His Majesty intends that these notes stipulated and Current Money cannot be subject to diminutions, which might happen to coins and they are always to be paid in full. In other words, let the foreigners have the gold and silver, the pay for money was really better for the home folks. That's an episode that we went through from 1934 to 1974, did we not? In July 1719, when Law's Company outbid the Paris brothers, that was the name for some For the monopoly of the tax collection, he dealt a fatal blow to what was then being organized or tried to be organized for a year, a group known as the anti-system. They wanted to bring law down. But by bringing in the collection of the taxes, he really put almost the final brick in place. He was well on his way toward paper money and a planned economy.

26:56In September 1719, law made its last great move, and that was to take over the entire national debt. The state had been paying its bondholders a steady 4 percent. Law's company would assume the debt and charge the government only 3 percent. The bondholders got the option of taking cash, investing in law's stock and awaiting a dividend or becoming speculators. The gesture to benefit the state of financial condition had predictable, dire consequences. Law activated an enormous amount of dormant capital for his system, without regard to the consequences for those conservative people who had loaned their money to the government in good faith, expecting a modest but steady return.

27:48In essence, law had monetized the national debt. He may have thought he found a way to breathe life into what he called dead capital. Economically, Elgin Grossgross explained, it was a great effort to give currency liquidity to all forms of wealth. You see that sort of action everywhere in our world today. And when I left Greenwich yesterday, I got one of those efforts in the mail. Dear Mr. Bricker, now you can enjoy the opportunity of having the house that you have been paying for and taking care of and have it do something for you.

28:41With a home equity loan from Irving Trust, you can free thousands of dollars that are are presently tied up in equity in your home. You'll be able to use this currently dormant asset to improve your home and property, or perhaps by building a tennis court, a greenhouse, a pool, or invest in art and other collectibles. Very interesting of the Irving Trust. Or to purchase a luxurious car. Any servant who made a lot of money went right out and bought a or a bigger boat, a second home. You can even use those funds to finance a business venture on the side.

29:27Well, and so the Irving Trust, like John Law, is breathing life into dead equity, dead capital. Now to do all of these things that Law had undertaken, the conglomerate, by taking over the national debt, he had to issue more cash. In January 1720, the people began doing what John Law wanted them to do with paper money, to spend it, much like the Irving Trust. They bought real estate, jewelry, carriages and clothes. They traveled, they went to the theater, they dined out. As John Law said, banknotes should not be regarded as a simple promise to furnish gold and silver equivalent to the denomination, but as a reciprocal agreement between the king and his subjects to give and take mutually through the circulation of this paper money, not just BC, but things of real value.

30:32The people then were doing their half of the job. They were out after things of real value. But the cautious began to take their paper livre and buy jewelry and deposit it abroad. Or they sold their paper bills to foreigners for coins, which could also be conveniently stored abroad. The makers of valuable objects, collectibles, stopped raising prices and refused to sell at all. The decrease in the demand for the paper livre had begun. The wise began to play the short side of the market. Richard Cantillon knew all along the folly of John Law's system, and he made his fortune by loaning money to the greedy so that they could buy shares for speculation. Cantillon sold the shares that he held as The payment was due, and the shares were worthless, but it was time to pay off Richard Cantillon.

31:42He insisted that the debtors pay him in specie. By the way, Richard Cantillon is also the man who said that a country that has an awful A lot of external debt is a nation that has in its midst fires of straw and is about to go bankrupt. So when we do our drama with John Law, we have to cast a very smart man. Murray says they have to be stout, as Richard Cantillon. The Realizers, as they were known for turning in the paper leaver for specie, brought John Law's personal wrath against old enemies and former friends.

32:28Law considered hoarding unsocial and sought to eradicate it by edict. Those who want to amass and retain wealth are like parts or extremities of the human body which would want to stop the flow of blood that irrigates and nourishes them. In order to protect the system, law struck out at those who were still unwilling to accept the idea that wealth and paper were coterminous and indistinguishable. John Law declared, it is necessary to have recourse to authority to induce the public to contribute to their own happiness.

33:24Thus John Law had his paper money declared exclusive legal tender of the realm. Through a series of edicts in January and February of 1720, no one was to wear diamonds and precious stones without permission. Didn't somebody tell us recently that we were supposed to lower our standard of living? Goldsmiths were not to make gold-plate objects, and no one was to import them. No payment in excess of 100 gold livers was allowed. The holding of gold and silver was restricted to the equivalent of 500 livers. To enforce these edicts, law imposed search and seizure measures. Rewards were offered to informers. Homes were torn apart and churches were forced to turn in coin from poor boxes. You should have given the gold to the poor, was the Judas-like cry from the police. The joy of 1719 turned into chaos and ruin for thousands in 1720.

34:23Along the way to power, John Law had given up his Scotch Presbyterianism to become a Roman Catholic. In the midst of the misery, the British ambassador to France, the Earl of Stare, observed that he could not now doubt that Law was a Catholic because he established the Inquisition after proving transubstantiation by changing species into paper. Now John Law saw the need to dampen down the speculation that he had come to believe was a curse, despite his own responsibility for creating and encouraging the mania. He blamed the cupidity of the consciousless traders for damaging his system. Of course he blamed the businessmen.

35:08The butchers were overpricing, so he brought cattle into Paris and personally provided cheaper meat. In a letter to a Parisian newspaper, Law explained that there had been a misunderstanding that threatened his system. He says the rave to pile up money came from the extraordinary growth of securities. Most people, surprised at their own profits, believed that they ought to turn them into gold and silver pieces, which they called profit-taking. law, they had not realized that the appreciated shares represent less actual money than capital, with many times more than their old contracts, but the truth of this should have been evident from the astonishing heights to which these shares had risen, for they actually surpassed in value all the gold and silver that will ever be in the kingdom.

36:04In his desperation, law finally turned to something he said he would never do, manipulating Reducing the Value of Specie Having issued the state money as the money of account, law was able to adjust its value by manipulating the value of the specie according to Levera, making the notes appear more valuable than gold. So he reduced the value of gold. Some specie came into the bank and people traded in specie for notes, but still he had had to issue more paper to redeem this species, and the money supply was definitely out of control. In March 1720, an edict banning the trading of securities throughout Paris was issued, and the Rue Quine-Quimpois was closed, and a week later a black market in securities and in coins sprang up, ironically in the Place Louis-Lagrange where Law lived and much On May 1720, in the name of the King, law decreed that in order to check inflation and reduce the amount of paper money in circulation, its value was to be diminished by 50 percent

37:21over a six-month period. That is, a 100-lever note would become by December a 50-lever note. The edict also stated that the shares of the Indies Company would be forced down from 9,000 to $5,000 during the same period. Because this decline was less drastic than the currency devaluation, law actually expected the prosperous to turn in some of their paper for shares. That way he would retire some of the money that he had just printed. In theory, he thought the public would be losing nothing since the prices would presumably The Man in the street felt as if he had suddenly been robbed of half of his wealth. What hurt the most was the loss of faith in the immutability of banknotes, which law in the region had solemnly assured their holders would never lose their value, and which only a few months before had been worth more than the face value. This betrayal was fatal. Fatal to law, fatal Law's decree, however, was never put into effect. In May, he was relieved of his portfolio

38:44as Comptroller General of Finance. New edicts were issued permitting the use of specie again and Transactions. The limit of 500 lever personal possession of coin was removed. From June until December, Law remained in Paris, watching others undo in six months what he had created over a period of four years. On October 10, 1720, an edict decreed that after the 1st of November all paper money would be withdrawn from circulation and could be used only for conversion into state bonds. Its shares of the company were quoted at 2,000 L, which meant 400 L in hard money, money that had been devalued several times since the shares were first issued.

39:30So by the end of the fall, both paper currency and stock certificates were worth so little that only speculators who specialized in holding paper over long periods of time were interested in having either of law's creations. Paper money has now been restored to its intrinsic value. Charles Rist has said of John Law's theories that never before in the age-old struggle between the State, bent on making counterfeit money, and individuals defending their fortune against its exactions, have the implications of tyrannical ideas been followed up with greater logic. The right to ownership of money has never been denied with a more thorough cynicism, nor the rights of the State over the goods of its subjects affirmed with less hypocrisy.

40:36Now, if all the similarities that I've pointed out between our time and John Law are valid, then I suggest that the next good sign that we see will be a black market in sound money on 20th and Constitution Avenue. Thank you very much, Elizabeth. I hesitate to ask whether in this play you don't intend to cast the economist in the role of the fortune tellers and devil worshipers. We'll be happy to have questions or comments from the audience now.

41:24It is amazing and I will admit to a significant lack of knowledge of history of the Mississippi Bubble episode though that the parallels that Elizabeth drew with the John Law episode and what we have seen with regard to our monetary system, arrangements, banks and what not over the last 20 years or so. Do they know what the Constitution Avenue is? Perhaps you should tell them. That's where the Federal Reserve building is. Marble Palace, as we used to refer to it.

42:03If anybody will write the play, I'll get the venture capital all in paper. What's the best way to invest in the gold? Bonds, or stocks, or bullion? You can't get it by bonds, but I'd do it any way I could. And I learned from this myself, and who was it earlier today said that the purchasing power of gold held its own. Joe Peden said that, yes. That underscored what I gained from my expanded research. Isn't it interesting that gold was always the enemy of John Law? It's the one thing he wanted to eradicate, and it defeated him finally because that's That's what the people turn to. How to buy, how to hold gold? Very quietly, because you remember what they did, what they always seem to do, they come after it. But I would say coin, bullion, if that's the style you travel, and lots of shares, because I think it is Would you please use the microphone so we can get all of this on tape, please?

43:33Would you consider investing in gold or silver, if you had your choice? Well I think gold is money. Silver is a little bit more diverse. Now, should I say for the For the sake of the SEC that I am not a licensed investment advisor. But silver has industrial uses. It has a different supply factor to be considered. But I think either one will do in a crisis. But I would say that gold really is money. Silver does serve, too. It's the second, would be my second choice. All right, thank you.

44:20That it? Additional questions or comments, please?

44:31With some of the recent mining activity in gold, it looks as though the cost of mining gold may be dropping. and the value of money may drop in the future. That will have a direct bearing on the value of gold, of course. Well, I mean that if you invest in a company, your dividends will look better, too. You mean heap leaching and such as that? Yes, the new processes are bringing out more gold. And mines are being opened up several a day, so the supply is coming on. Yes, it's an exciting time for money, but I would think that the reducing the cost would mean better dividends.

45:19Well, you all come to my... Oh, Ralph. I was interested in your alluding to the Eva Perone movie. Are you suggesting that perhaps someone should indeed put together a movie about John Law? And if you are, how do you see the comparison between the hard-money people and the soft-money people in demonstrating their ideas through the theatre? Well, I don't think the hard-money people demonstrate their ideas at all in that art form. And I think it's too bad. I think we should use the art forms because certainly The others do, whoever they are. They use the theater, they use the graphic arts. Broadway is a very expensive medium. I do think this would make a very exciting show. Maybe we could just do it on the cheap with a couple of people and some films. I am thoroughly I'm very enjoying today and I'm taking too much time and I think it's wonderful to learn these lessons in this environment which we all enjoy.

46:36I mean, if you're like me, this is just meat and drink for you. But I think it would be interesting to use the other media that are available to us and I think I'd like to see us use the theater for stories as exciting as this. By the way, the word millionaire began at John Law's time, so you can feed out all sorts of little things. If they don't learn about money, they can go out with a few little ideas to tell at the next cocktail party. And then, you know, we started the word billionaire now. Any further questions? I'm not too familiar with the Mises Institute. I don't know just how you operate, but I'm wondering if you can explain to us what you propose doing to encourage this move to hard Well, certainly there's much that can be done and needs to be done to promote stable value for the U.S. dollar and sound currency and, to the extent possible, ensure a non-inflationary future, but I think we're of the view that ideas, to some extent,

48:03to the extent possible ensure a non-inflationary future but I think we're of the view that ideas to some extent do rule the world and so one must start and win on the intellectual front before any lasting changes can occur. Mises Institute views and I speak for it as a large element of education and and providing the climate and the resources to fund intellectual endeavors as they apply to issues, not just sound money, but issues of a free society in general. There are many complementary institutions, such as Mrs. Currier's Committee for Monetary Research and Education, who not only view themselves as providing educational and intellectual support, but also policy guidance, policy debates, and things of that nature.

49:02So viewed as a whole, certainly there are steps in place, certainly there's much to be done, but gatherings such as this are part of that process.